Who Has It More Right The Tea Party Or Occupy?


Tea Party vs. OccupyEver wonder why the Tea Party and Occupy movements sound so much alike at times yet at other times they sound so very different? Well I certainly have and despite thousands of Tweets, Google+ Posts, and Facebook comments later I was still a bit confused. That was until I saw the graphic above on Facebook that brought the matter into the proper frame for discussion. A discussion that I hope to generate over several posts on this topic.

The long of the short of this is that it seems that both groups have a huge problem with the power that corporations have gained over our central government. The result is regulations that are favorable to the very entities they are purported to curb. This is nothing new and the solution to it has been debated for years. Each depending on what one considers to be the root of the problem. As the chart above clearly shows, the Tea Party believes it is that the central government is too powerful and Occupy believes that it is that the corporations have too much power.

Who is more right?

All topics covered on this site are tied 20 questions it seeks to discuss

To answer that I feel we have to go back in history to the year 1913 when three important deviations from the blue print laid out by our Founding Fathers occurred. The first was the incorporation of the tax on income. The second was the creation of the Federal Reserve. The final, and in my view by far the worst, was the states being stripped of their rights to appoint Senators to the United States Congress. Long story short, the Central government cash trough was created and the states power to put a check on Federal abuse of power was severely diminished.

More on the three deviations above to come in later posts in this series. However, I want to leave you with one thing that I ask “Progressives” from Occupy all the time: If 100 years of regulation has not worked what makes people think more regulation is the answer?…


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61 thoughts on “Who Has It More Right The Tea Party Or Occupy?

  1. No, it did work. There is a 40 years history after the first depression where wall street and the banks were regulated and it worked. Our economy for the most part stable. Then they passed laws to deregulate and to do much of the same behavior that got them into trouble in the first depression in the1930’s. Those laws worked and we need to bring them back and there is a big resistance to this of course.

    • I’m sorry but you are incorrect Paula. Regulations from the federal government only make things harder and more expensive for businesses and then the consumers. Our economic conditions are a result of regulations on banks, of the housing market, which was were passed by democrats to insure all people, credit worthy or not, could purchase a home. The federal government mandated the banks give out these risky loans and if they did not they were threatened to be cut off of Fannie & Freddie funds. Those laws have been enlarged and are not working. That is our problem. Why do you think the government should tell you how to do business, when the government does not have one “business” that is solvent? How could a government possibly know what is best for you when they do not know you? The banks are a business, they were forced by regulations to make loans they did not want to. You need to do some homework! money l

      • @dawn

        That is the little secret that no one in OWS wants to talk about: The FED and Federal government put pressure the banks to make bad investments and then bailed out the big banks and let the smaller ones die. Huge transfer of wealth from one group to another…

      • No, that is not accurate. There used to be a time when there were regulations that didn’t allow for Banks to be in the market place, AT All. They changed that.There was pressure on the banks later as in your example but this is not how the laws were initially. In the initial regulations they wouldn’t of been able to play in the market, at all. No one would of been able to pressure them to take actions that were outside the law or their abilities. Bankers are not entreprenuers and or stock brokers. The changed the dynamic of the market. They started to make bankers entreprenures who would assign values to certain kinds of stock. Previously bankers had just kind of tended the money but this is not how it was in the depression. Check your history. The same behaviors and manipulation of the market place is the same behavior that was going on before the depression. We have learned this lesson before. We even know what there is to do to correct it but the greed is stopping this right action.

        I’m glad to see Christians interested in all of this. I have come to an amazing fact lately. You know there is a distinction in banking called “community banking.” It has it’s own regulations so they have not been so effected by the current situations. There is for example The Bakers Union. (Laughing) A bank run by bakers. It’s for…. bakers who bake in grocery stores and independant business across the nation. I have started research into this and anyone can start this and in fact the Bakers Union will even help you get started. I found in my reseach there has only been one attempt at a Christian Bankers Union. It folded because their backing union didn’t realize they were against gays when they started out but then withdrew when they realized that they were. Only one attempt by Christians to form a Christian bank with a Christian agenda. Christian have got to wake up to that God wants us in the marketplace. It would be a way to fund say for example the widow or the fatherless at an very low interest rate. In Japan for example where the larger banks are in trouble the community banking efforts are still stable and helping to add stablity.

        So I’m looking for Christian who are interested in creating something of God in the market place. So God is the one who has lead me in all this. God would show us how to use support and empower the business market place if we could develop a mindset of that we could collectively make a diffference. Any takers?

    • @Paula

      To believe that you would have to believe that a privately owned bank that was never for 100 years audited, until last year and only for a brief period, created and run by the very bankers that the “Progressives” were trying to regulate is the best group to be regulating monetary policy? Do you believe that?

      That is leaving aside all the other regulations that did nothing but allow for hand picked corporations to colluded to kill the competition using the regulations that were intended for themselves. Do not even get me started on the corporate cash trough at the Federal govt. and how small business owners supply most of it. Thus, the use of a “progressive” tax in the guise of helping the poor to kill off competition. Straight from the playbook of Karl Marx…

      • @3rdWAVElands – Yes, that is the secret that is not so secret anymore! Mom & Pop banks are still failing and closing in the hundreds every year because they can not compete with the government and their 5 big crony banks. That is what regulations got us. Government run crony capitalistic banks. They on their way to one big entity. Then they will rule the world! It’s Pinky & the Brain. 🙂 Look forward to reading the rest of your blog and I agree with you on getting back to the Constitution and what that means. I realize it has been being unraveled for so many decades now that getting back is a multi step procedure, but we have to start somewhere. Let’s just start!

  2. The corporations that are, “too big to fail” are run by the government. Please do not compare OWS to the Tea Party. There is no comparison. Tea Party is for the Constitution which is the law of the land. OWS advocates liberalism, it’s not fair attitude. They push Marxism/Communism, they are violent, cause property damage and have NO clear message. They are also funded by George Soros our prez.’s BFF. OWS wants NO capitalism, they really think it will just go away. What they need to know is Capitalism will always be around, or there will be no stores. If freedom is removed then the Government becomes the Capitalist and that is what we are seeing now and that is why it is not working Paula! All they needed to do was to remove the FHA fund anyone loan and let the banks do their job. Instead they enforced it’s existence by bail out money to the banks. Conventional mtg.’s, which are the “private” money, they require 20+% down. FHA = Federal Housing Authority = 3.5% down and you can finance that, so no money down loans still happening to high risk people and insured by the taxpayer. Normal responsible people with good credit can not get a mtg. unless they put down 20, 30, 40% and have huge residuals in the bank etc. etc. FHA you just need 2 months residuals and someone can lend you that, they finance the down payment of 3.5% and the funding money is fiat money. Why do you think there are still so many foreclosures? Nothing has recovered. Economy is anemic, not stable. I think it has been so bad for so long people can’t remember what good is anymore. We are in trouble if this is the case. The U.S. Constitution is for LIMITED GOVERNMENT involvement in it’s citizens lives. If you make a bad business decision you go out of business. That is normal, you do not bail them out so they can continue. God help us!

    • I agree with most of what you said in principle and appreciate, since this is a property investment blog, that specific impact on Real Estate. As I move along in this series I am going to talk more about 1913 and why I feel the 3 things I mentioned in the post were deviations from the Founders blue print for our nation. Part of that will be a deep analysis of Federalist Papers 28 and 51. It is one thing to talk about “getting back to the Constitution”. It is another to know in a deep philosophical and historical way what that means. Ron Paul and the Tea Party started the conversation but as it grows it needs more depth…

  3. I bless you brother for your point of view but we simply disagree. I really don’t engage in conversation that have an element of strife to them and I feel this on is heading that way. That is just me. I believe in a God that can do anything and he is shifting the money now. It will go into more of his people’s hands who have ears to hear and eye to see. Blessings and love. Paula Mary

    • I hope you are right Paula. Your examples on the bakers bank & Christian bank unions has some merit, but they can not have their own regulations. Dodd-Frank has dictated how financial and non-financial entities must behave. There must be a loop hole somewhere…for now. New regs. kick in on all in 2013. Have you seen: The Test of Fire – on youtube yet. It is a video for the election from the Catholic Church. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D9vQt6IXXaM#! A must see!

    • @Paula

      I am not sure why you believe good discussion is strife? I am all for community banks. Hard for anyone to do anything right now when the system is rigged through regulation and taxes to drain small business, including small regional banks, and provide subsidies and bailouts to the handpicked few.

      • @ 3rdWAVElands That was the point I was trying to make, thanks. God helps those who help themselves because He works through us. It is often misinterpreted. Too many have their heads in the sand and this is why we have the fire in our souls to fight, it is Him and He knows we see and must try to make others see. A job we did not look for but it came anyway. 🙂

      • @Dawn

        My life story. Trying to get people to see what they do not see. Used to do it as a in many roles, mainly as a public school teacher, but now as a blogger/Real Estate Agent. I put blogger first because I feel that is more my calling. As for the latter I gave up on SWFL, moved away and let my license go. After being spit out of the belly of a whale I am back here in Marco in process of getting it back and working on building a Property Management Company…

      • @ 3rdWAVElands – I hear ya. I tried to give up too but there was no where to go! Now I am the knowledgeable conservative voice of my island and office. Still some try to dismiss me and I just tell them it is a courtesy call to them, my fellow professionals. If they do not want to heed the warning then so be it. I know I tried to do the right thing. This is my new and only means of advertising, letters to the editor, and social networking/blogging & commenting. Still waiting to see the results! Just moved to a new office and my broker, Mr. Top Gun, did not even know about the adverse effects of Dodd-Frank on owner financing. Pretty much terminated that option. He is in some of his own and thought I was crazy when I brought it up as “outlawed”, so I had to pull the law up on the PC to show him I was telling the truth. Where the heck has NAR been on this issue? No one knows what’s going on, I enlighten them but don’t get a paycheck for that?? Good luck to you in your new endeavors! Good luck to us all! Dawn

      • Who has it more Right, the Tea Party or Occupy? Yesterday I heard Rush give a very accurate synopsis regarding this question. Thought it was worth re-writing: “We never hear anything about the Occupy movement unless it’s a report about some of their members being arrested for terrorist plots like wanting to blow up bridges or something. So while the Occupy movement is busy trying to blow up bridges, the Tea Party has been busy winning primary after primary. See, the Tea Party is NOT a movement. The Tea Party is an idea. The Tea Party is a series of ideas. It has a core. Occupy doesn’t have a core. It’s just a bunch of rabble-rousers thrown together. And they are a movement.” Falling apart and fading quickly is that movement. Pretty much over and it has left a gaping scar on the supporting administration, which has helped them to drop significantly in the polls in my opinion. We can thank Occupy for that!

      • I do not always agree with Rush but that sounds about right. Occupy has so legitimate concerns, mainly horrible solutions, and the leadership that has arisen is a least somewhat if not heavily influenced by the Anti-IMF anarchist types. Not that I support the IMF but I have not support for anarchy. The French Revolution turned into. Look at Egypt. Rebelled in the streets just to see a more hard line government elected? There is a difference between a revolution and a rebellion our founders show us the blue print…

      • Please name the “legitimate” concerns of Occupy for me. In fact, if you can name anything about that movement that is legitimate right down to the leaders and funding, name it for me too. The Tea Party came to be in late 2009 and everything about it right down to the permits needed to organize in a park is legitimate. They are an unofficial third party influencing conservative changes in the republican party. The Tea Party follows the Constitution and all other laws of the land. They have candidates, some have been elected and are in the Senate, House et al writing or participating in the writing of REAL legislation in the form of Bills to be voted on by Congress. Occupy has none of this, absolutely NONE. They are a violent movement with NO bona fide actions or participation in government. Destroying private and public property, causing bodily injury to other people in their way, they do not pay for permits, they are an expense to our cities in a time when nothing is solvent. The Tea Party pays their way and follows the laws. I’m really not sure what side of the fence you are on and being a Tea Party member I’m becoming a bit turned off. Wish you could explain your mindset more clearly.

      • I think the on right about the corporate collusion and big banks rigging the system. The calls for more regulation and a return to Marxist philosophy as solutions are naive.

      • It is the government involvement that is the corporate collusion and bank rigging yet Occupy wants to kill capitalists. They want more government to solve this. Makes no sense, so like I said, when you have something legitimate on Occupy please let me know. Your mindset is that of anti-colonialism and that is the mindset that we are trying to rid.

      • Just because their solutions may not be the best or disagree with mine does not mean I throw out the baby with the bathwater. In his argument that a an extended Republic could work (in reply to anti-Federalists that were quoting Hume that republics only work in small population) Madison said that the varied self-interests would all clash and two things would happen:

        1. The more radical ideas that were dangerous to the whole nation would be repudiated.
        2. The more rational ideas would be debated and compromised upon.

        In other words, the nation was founded on the ideal that all legitimate points of view have a place at the national table. Why would my mindset differ from his? In other words, if their is merit in what they are saying bring forth that part and throw the rest out. In my view they have a legitimate concern about the growth of corporate power. Their solutions are often socialistic and IMO backward. Sometimes, within the anarchists among them, dangerous. But I do think they deserve a place at the table. Ron Paul is even reaching out and trying to educate them on the merits of free markets and limited government. Many are listening…

      • What are their solutions? All I’ve heard & seen from OWS is violent protesting, attempts to shut down businesses, attempts to blow up bridges, occupying public/private parks so no one else can use them, not paying for permits to occupy parks etc., defecating on police cars, chanting kill the capitalists, schooling themselves on Marxism.Communism and internet attempts to take down wall street. Those are not solutions. Those are criminal offenses. They are not at the table because they have no merit or solutions for their cries, heck they don’t even have their cries correct is my main point to you. You say their solutions may not be the best and that they are socialist and backwards, but yet you want them to bring that to the table? Makes no sense because yes, socialism is backwards for America. The “corporate power” you think is their legitimate concern has no merit because they think it is capitalism and that is incorrect. It is crony capitalism because it is the Federal Government playing the capitalist. They should be advocating for free markets not more government regulation a.k.a. socialism. Nothing about Occupy is legitimate like I said. I’m surprised that you think OWS has merit and you do not defend or validate the Tea Party. The Tea Party is the only reason we have a chance at some hope in this country because the Tea Party is the only legitimate third party doing something legitimate about our politics. They do not do what OWS does and their message is clear, has a core, has merit, has morals, has meaning, and is based on our U.S. Constitution. The entire point of everything happening today is too much Federal Government involvement in citizens lives. The Federalists papers say republics work best if kept small is exactly what I mean. That is why the states are supposed to govern their people and not the feds. That is what that means. That is what’s wrong. The Feds are not letting that happen. The Constitution is for LIMITED Federal Gov. involvement. If OWS was legitimate, like the Tea Party is, then they would be advocating, as the Tea Party is, for less federal government. Instead they want more. They are also funded by the left and the hard left, the corrupt billionaire left, the ones they say they hate. Again, that kinda wipes out any legitimacy on their part. You can not be for free markets and give support to Occupy at the same time. The two do not mix, oil & water. Throw this baby out with the bathwater because this baby is a monster. So it seems to me that you will be voting for BO in Nov. Too bad for America.

      • Hey, in your view, what makes a person or a group of people worthy of deserving? You said, you think they ‘deserve’ a place at the table. After all the examples I gave of their message(s) through their actions, why do they deserve a seat at the table? I think those examples are why they have not been invited to sit at the table with the Tea Party. The Tea Party got a seat because they are non-violent and followed the laws with good intentions. The Tea Party wants the gov. out of capitalism, so why didn’t occupy just join in with the Tea Party if that is truly their legitimate concern? Because it’s not, occupy wants more gov. capitalism. Do you see my point yet? That’s why their solution, that you don’t agree with, is socialism. Socialism is Government Capitalism and that is what you are seeing and not liking. Ron Paul is for solvency, since you used him to express your view I assume you support him. If so, then why does occupy deserve a seat when they broke the laws by destroying and occupying property which resulted in tax payer dollars to pay for the fixes and police in the millions of dollars, and at a time when all places are so insolvent. How can you support Paul and occupy? The math does not work and your message is seriously muffled. If Paul is mixing with this occupy movement then Paul will most certainly lose all credibility. I have not heard that. I will be disappointed if that is true. I was hoping to see Paul somewhere in Romney’s cabinet… like treasury or something near it. In my view, when a person or people act irrational and against the law, I won’t let them sit at my table. In fact I would put my Rottweiler out on the front porch to keep them away from my table. Good intentions, which are shown through tangible happenings of good things, are deserving for me. Another curiosity I have of your writings is, do you agree with Occupy on their views of wealth differences? Their ‘corporate power’ protest is in regards to the employees and CEO’s, owners, making so much money, not fair is the theme I believe. Is that why you say they have a legitimate concern? I don’t understand why some have a problem with others who make tons of money, but that may not be our topic here, just trying to clarify. I am interested in pointing out logic to others. It is a much needed thing in this time of our country.

      • In regards to anti-colonialism, if you have read the tab pages across this blog I think you will see that I believe:

        1. Western Civilization helped launch the modern world
        2. Western Civilization’s ideas have dominated the modern world
        3. Some for the good and some not
        4. That when it comes to Exploration and Colonialism we cannot throw out the baby with the bath water as so many do.

        See this… http://3rdwavelands.net/beyond-the-horizon/

    • Mike, you have got to be kidding, right?! The bankers are the government. It is the government mandating how the banks do business. How could you possibly say Occupy has it more right, it is insane. Protest the government to stop regulating the banks to do what they do. All the mtg. programs out there to supposedly help homeowners is not for homeowners, it is to help the banks cover the losses they took because the government FORCED them to sell their high risk loans. The banks did not want to do that, they were forced to do it. It is a mobster government, Rouge. They held a gun to their heads, said make these loans or you are cut off from funding of Fannie & Freddie. It is a fact. Occupy is wasting their time and their solution to it all is really nuts, Marxism/Communism or socialism…all are more extreme government control. Look around if you don’t believe me, what does America, the people of America, what do they own, what do they produce anymore? What commercials do you see on tv? The government is becoming the bankers, this is their take over and that is what you do not like. They are taking over the banking system and DoddFrank has let them, only five large banks are running the country now and it is them driving the bus, the government. No private people can hold mortgages anymore, no more choice options in financing. Government insured loans is all there is. No more mtg. brokers, no more private appraisers, no more owner financing, no more balloon notes, we don’t have an auto industry anymore, gov. took it and short saled it to China. China makes Chevy cars now not America. No more private healthcare, no private jobs, no wealth creation because they do not want you to have it. Wake the hell up already you fools! Joe was/is a Realtor, how does he not see this? Been away too long I guess. Try to do business Joe, see how far you get without the GOVERNMENT knocking you down. Blind fools is all you are and it is pathetic. Embarrassing, pathetic and ugly. So ignorant and cruel too. Please do your homework as our country needs common sense and logic more then ever.

      • Ron Paul got something through in Sept. 2011. I believe it was considered “watered down” but ‘the first ever GAO audit of the Federal Reserve’ is posted on Senator Bernie Sanders web page. You read that correct, Bernie Sanders a ‘socialist’ democrat posted it because he worked on it with Ron Paul(R-TX), Jim DeMint(R-SC) and Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D), that I know of. You must have heard this it relates to the 16 trillion extra, on top of our 16 trillion now, secretly given out to US Banks and Corporations and foreign banks everywhere from France to Scotland. The Fed never went public with this info. but it is out there. You know when you have both republicans and democrats and every member of the republican party in Congress sponsoring a bill to audit the Fed.Res., that this entity has no over sight and no accountability and something is very wrong. Then do some homework on the guys who are in the corporations and board members of the reserve and you will see they are some of the same guys in our government. OMG. Timmy is out of the closet, remember our Treasury secretary?? You know, the one who was in trouble for not paying millions in income tax when he was first appointed, well he is one of conflicts of interest with the federal reserve. Mike might be interested to learn. sanders.senate,gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-6206dcbb3c3

      • nilvehsd, I have thoroughly educated myself on the Federal Reserve and the connections of big business with our government. The simple fact that “Tea Party Patriots ” miss is that all roads lead to Wall Street. I can see by your comment that you are starting to catch on though.
        For your homework assignment tonight nilvehsd I would encourage you to read “Bad Money” by conservative and a highly respected Republican strategist Kevin Phillips.

        The bestselling author reveals how the U.S. financial sector has hijacked our economy and put America’s global future at risk

        http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Money-Reckless-Politics-Capitalism/dp/0670019070

  4. I’m LMAO at all of you capitalist’s that are P.O’d at the system and complain about how it is rigged against you the small business owner. All one needs to do is to read Marx to understand this is the natural progression of the capitalist system.

    http://online.wsj.com/video/68EE8F89-EC24-42F8-9B9D-47B510E473B0.html

    Oh by the way there is a link on the page to another interesting part of this interview.

    Roubini: Bush Responsible for Economic Woes

      • The present US economic system that Free Market Economist Dr. Nouriel Roubini discusses in the interview that I posted above.

        Nouriel Roubini: Karl Marx Was Right

        In a clip from a longer interview with WSJ’s Simon Constable, Dr Nouriel Roubini claims Karl Marx was right about capitalism self-destructing. While the U.S. is not there yet, he believes there is considerable danger facing the United States.

        http://online.wsj.com/video/68EE8F89-EC24-42F8-9B9D-47B510E473B0.html

      • Mike – That youtube video is trying to tell you what I am saying. Yes, capitalism is big business (and small business) and it is the funding source of all nations. That is exactly why he wants the guy to go on tv and brainwash 60 million people to believe that the governments should run capitalism and not the people. Because if the peoele run it we are stronger then the governments. Why do you not see this. It is satire that video, not non-fiction. The man is telling you they will run it all, one system and all people work for it ( for a pittance ) and they will provide your needs. Do you really think they are going to give you the finer things in life? Look at others in this position. They live like rats. Do your darn homework. Don’t let them take your mind like this. A free market capitalistic system gives all people opportunity to do it on their own. If you hate Exxon don’t buy their gas. They will either change their ways or go out of business. That is how we have the power, unless we are forced to buy from Exxon, then they stay corruptly around forever. Makes sense don’t ya think? That video is preaching force, that is why the silent man has such a look of horror on his face. How can you possibly think one owner is good for mankind? That is the definition of greed silly! One ‘guy’ gets it all, you get a bone thrown at you is all. Look at the EU, their people are suffering from this premise. Look around you, our people are suffering because this ‘theory’ is being implemented and it is hurting people. It is destroying wealth creation, foreclosures, unemployment, closing companies. Hewlet Packard is about to lay off 25,000 people because sales are down so low because people can not afford to purchase anything. That means lower tax revenue to the government, more unemployment and who pays for all the losses? We do. With taxation. This will require more money from your paycheck because Mr. Buffet is not paying his taxes. It is sad that you believe all this nonsense. I feel sorry for you. Really pathetic and sad. You have something no one else in the world has and they all want it, but you want to throw it away. Why? Jealousy is it? Not happy with your life? Besides gas prices at the pump, how is Exxon’s profits negatively effecting your life? Oh, and that price at the pump is because the government tax on Exxon is one third of the price. If you have a 401k guess what? Some of the profits it makes for your later years is from Exxon doing well. These big companies are what fuels the stock market and what builds retirement funds. Do you have one? Marxism will take it from you soon. Look at S.S. Not gonna be there for us under 52, but guess what? We still have to pay for today’s recipients because the feds took the surplus, spent it elsewhere and now can’t pay it back. So we lose, not them. Use your head man!

      • Mike,

        That is not capitalism. Or maybe we need to distinguish between “capitalism” based on the premise that greed is good that has been hijacked by the financial sector through the FED and “capitalism” that is based on self interest tempered by love of neighbor made possible by respect for God and man who is made in His image. The latter is true capitalism. Or maybe better yet we call it free market enterprise because what you are calling “capitalism” is antithetical to that in that the markets are rigged and need to be freed up. Have to have our terms correct.

  5. Christianity and capitalism???? Capitalism is based on self interest and greed. this is in direct conflict with the teachings in the Bible. The US is about to suffer the same consequence’s of the Israelite’s as predicted by the Prophets for the same reasons.

      • Yes that was their “theory” and along came Marx and he laid out his theory of how capitalism would self destruct due to self interest and greed. Here is the face of capitalism’s take no prisoners, only the strong will survive, social Darwinism and lets not leave out human nature.

      • Destruction of capitalism through self interest and greed. Yes, by the government…the rule makers. He forgot that part didn’t he? Because the free market does not let that happen, the math does not work as I stated in my last comment to you. People won’t buy what is not good, so greed can not flourish in a free market. It is flourishing today because it is not such a free market anymore. Does Marx tell ya how to get rid of the self interest and greed? Because breaking their windows and starting fires in the windows of banks and businesses isn’t getting rid of it, the government’s strong hold on capitalism, the self interest and greed. The greed can only win when it has the mandated monopoly, that is how capitalism gets corrupted and destructed, only it does not go away, it just changes hands. Does marx tell ya that too? Does he tell you that everything that starts with an ‘F’ means Federal, and do you then look to all these ‘F’ titles and not see the owners are the government and the business is corrupt and upside down financially? How does he explain all that? Does marx tell ya how marxism gets paid for? I heard a ‘proud socialist’ once say that capitalism makes man work for a pittance, well actually that is what marxism does. When the government tells you where to work and how much they think you should earn then that is marxism and that is when you will work for a pittance. Socialism, marxism, communism are all based on one funding premise – at or near 100% taxation from us. Because government anything does NOT make it’s own money, it takes money from others who do earn. Keep saying that over and over until you see it: The government does not make money, it takes money in the form of taxation. The government needs your able body to go do the task to earn the dollar to pay them for their marxism. So you become enslaved. No freedom to work at what you want, they hand out the jobs and you do it or you die. If you have never run a business then you have no merit telling us that marx is legitimate. You don’t know the other side, never participated in it, don’t know what is actual, don’t know the actual taxation codes, and have never achieved wealth creation on your own, that is the only reason you could agree, so that’s how I know I am correct. When a person works hard and creates wealth and assets they do not want anyone taking them away. That is steeling. That is a crime in this country. That would be like you telling your wife what maxi pad to use. You don’t know, you have never had a menstrual cycle. Joe and I know that marxism is insane and wrong. We know because we are capitalists and we participate in the taxation rules. So we know what is actual. Your links are fruitless, they mean nothing because they are not based on tangible facts, they are some crazy guy’s “theory” of how things are. Nothing bona fide about a theory and it’s a theory that was used and failed miserably. If you can not speak on your own and you have to use others words then you are just not bona fide. Your on the wrong road brother, might want to turn RIGHT.

      • ambition urging in front, want and the fear of want bringing up the rear! In the conflicting interests that would be involved, in the throat-cutting competition that would prevail, in the bitterness that would be engendered between man and man, husband and wife, father and son, I should, of course, have no part. There would be lying and cheating, harsh treatment by masters, dishonesty of servants, strikes and lockouts, assaults and intimidation, family feuds and interminable broils; but they would not concern Me.
        Capitalism as explained by Mark Twain without government interference.
        http://www.phundria.org.uk/old/miscellany/marktwain.html

      • Mike – Joe is correct, you are looking at the wrong side of the coin. You are quoting others again and you do not understand what you are quoting. Joe is also exactly correct with his last comment here on how these men do not believe in free market capitalism. What they are explaining to you is what marxism/communism capitalism is, and they are telling you that it is free market capitalism and you are buying it because you do not and have not ever participated in the free market system through any kind of asset accumulation hence the tax code of our country. If you did you would know better. Experience is the best teacher. Go get some before you throw away your freedom and your opportunity. The Tea Party gets it and they are the only organization that is inside the political arena working to replace the corruption and get back to our Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. No other country has that Mike, and they want it, they want it bad, this is them trying to steel it from you and you are so naively ignorant that you will hand it to them and enslave yourself and your future. Is that what you really want? Listen to Joe, he does and excellent job of trying to school you correctly and he understands the Federal Reserve creation etc. very well. Then use your logical mind. The Progressive solution and movement, if you open your eyes and look at all sides, is not progressive at all. It is a 109 year old new idea.??? It is communism renamed so you buy it. See, when bad guys want to lure you into their web they lie, if they told you the truth you would never go with them. To progress is to move forward through a better means. Marxism/communism are not moving forward they are old idea’s that we literally went to war against to defeat and remove because they were not better then what we have. Think about it. Obama’s green energy debt is not progress, it is backwards regression because we have tried all this solar and wind before. It does not work better then fossil fuels and that is why it is debt and not profit. No one wants it. See, there is that ‘choice’ thingy again, see how it works. Nineteen of BO’s green energy businesses are bankrupt in less then 2 years because of no demand. Demand comes from freedom of choice which amazingly is still present and alive although severely diminishing by way of low options. Education must be accompanied by common sense and backed up by legitimate tangible facts or it is worthless. The more you know the more you are worth and the better you will do in a free market system with choices and opportunities. Try it some time, you’ll like it. It is so much better then the dark side you are currently following.

      • ROFLMAO I have studied the various economic systems for several years now. I have studied the works of Locke,Smith, Ricardo, Proudhon, Marx, Von Mises, Hayek, Friedman and many others. What you are seeing is the inherent progression of your beloved free market system. The system is broke and collapsing it is time that we step back and look at new ideas on how to establish a sustainable economy that will work for everyone.

      • Mike,

        These men do not believe in free market capitalism. They collude to keep the markets from being free. I think most enlightened people agree on that. Certainly Occupy and The Tea Party agree. The question is what is the best remedy? If one thinks that the corporations are the main problem then they will try to use the government to reign them in. If one thinks that the government is the main problem he will try to shrink the size of government to starve the beast. The beast being the collusionists that feed off of it.

        Instead of labeling the beast capitalism or saying it represents free markets why not discuss the matter at hand? Which is clearly framed above. I argue that 1913 was a major deviation from the founding blue print and we have been off course ever since. The FED was created by big bankers for big bankers, the income tax was implemented which opened up the trough from which they feed, and the consolidation of central power in the wrong hands was left unchecked by the states because they lost the power to appoint Senators as the Founders designed with intent.

        The crazy part is it that it was all part of the “Progressive Solution” to stop Big Business and Big Banks from robbing from everyone? Sound like TARP and the OBAMA bailouts at all? So my question to you is why give more power to the crooks who gave all that money away to the truly “rich”? When you can answer that I will believe that more regulations will work. I think pigs will fly first personally…

  6. Joe your idealistic dream of a free market as laid out by Adam Smith will never happen. It’s hilarious how people will argue that communism will not work due to human nature and then turn around and promote a system based on self interest and think that it will work. What you see in these men is human nature at work they will “win” at all costs. This is why they are the ones at the top of the capitalist pyramid and always will be.
    It is time that we step back and take a good look at where we are and the direction we need to head to produce a sustainable economy that will work for all. Our ‘capitalist” system is based on mass consumerism which can not and will not last. We live on a finite planet with limited resources we are destroying this great planet Earth all in the name of profit.

    • Mike,

      It did work for years when people acknowledge God and what he thought about property. When that went out the door the system strayed off to what is has been since 1913.

      • What God thought about property or what Locke explains is property?

        In his Second Treatise on Government, the philosopher John Locke asked by what right an individual can claim to own one part of the world, when, according to the Bible, God gave the world to all humanity in common. He answered that
        persons own themselves and therefore their own labor. When a person works, that labor enters into the object. Thus, the object becomes the property of that person.

        If this is the case what gives a capitalist the right to profit off of what someone else (his employee) produces. Furthermore what gives a Wall Street investor who contributes no labor at all into a business any right to the output of that same employee’s labor?

      • Mike – What real life experience regarding any of your quotes do you have? First hand directly related to your life? How has it benefited you? Do you make more money practicing this marx theory? Are you being paid to preach it? How is it benefiting you? How is it benefiting our country? Has it enabled you to buy a nice home? Has it put a retirement plan together for your future? Does it reap you a higher wage earning? Why should we not have freedom & choice? What became of Marx from his super BS theory? How is America and her free market system negatively effecting your life, I want to know, how. First hand? What terrible thing happened to you because of freedom? What wonderful thing happened to you because of marx? What have you received from you learnings that can be applied to your REAL life that has benefited you? Do you put it on a job application and get a better position with higher pay because you know marx and believe in it? Do you pay income tax yet? Do you even have a job? A home? I’m betting you do not, am I correct? Answer those questions Mr. smarty pants. When you can go there you MIGHT have a debate, but my guess is you can not and so like I said….you got nothing.

      • By the way Joe if you will take the time to study the facts you will find that Laissez-faire free market capitalism has never existed and never will.

    • Mike – What the heck do you think communism is? It IS self interest of the rule makers. You really are clueless. There is no hope for you, no sense trying to keep explaining the facts and truth to you. People who do not participate in wealth creation and our system of taxation and government through small business and investment capital, should not be allowed to vote for or against these practices. They don’t know, so how the hell could they possibly vote for something they know nothing about. Your research is WRONG. Good bye. Good luck, we are going RED in Nov. and your commie dreams will be destroyed because they are evil. If you like it so much then why not move to one and leave America alone? Answer that one? Go move to a socialist or communist country and see for yourself how stupid and cruel they really are. You can’t know unless you experience things first hand. YOU know NOTHING. You are a traitor to this country. It wasn’t long ago that you would be jailed for that. I pray we go back to those days.

      • nilvehsd on June 14, 2012 at 2:57 pm said:

        “What the heck do you think communism is? It IS self interest of the rule makers. You really are clueless.”

        ROFLFAO!!!

        This coming from a person who does nothing but regurgitate rightwing propaganda. You refuse to actually study any of Marx writings and compare it to the Bullshit that you have swallowed hook line and sinker. LMAO!

  7. Pingback: Who Is More Right The Tea Party Or Occupy? Part 2 | 3rdWAVElands

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